Here we have the second part of the interview with two Osho Sannyasins, Hariprem and Kaulika. They held a workshop in Elontuli, Finland in July.
The first part of the interview was about Osho as a person. You can read it here.
In this second part, I asked What is Tantra and what it means to them. Enjoy!
Hariprem: For me, it is simply love. In all aspects. Not the holy love, not… the whole spectrum of love. Nothing is excluded. Because everybody is always teaching spiritual love, pure love, heterosexual love. We have so many boxes. If you say love is just the whole spectrum. Everything that is coming from the heart is tantra. From the lowest to the highest, from the highest to the lowest, everything is welcomed. Anger is part of love, fear is part of love, violence is part of love.
Everything has the potential to be transformed into higher consciousness. It is like the lotus grows out of the mud. The mud – sometimes it even stinks. You don’t really want to come close to the mud, but without the mud the flower is not possible so you cannot reject anything. That is what tantra is, you don’t reject anything, otherwise your flower of the heart can never blossom. It is not possible.
People try. I want only to meditate. I don’t want to look down, but that flower is not alive. It’s not possible. It needs the mud, so the mud is welcomed and the shit is also welcomed.
Kaulika: That may be the funniest thing to come to that understanding – that the mud and shit is not separate, it is just one. Can you separate the shit from the mud? You’ll say this mud is clean and that mud is unclean and this is pure. What is this?
Hariprem: When you have mud, maybe the flower will not be so beautiful so you put some shit on top of the mud. And then the flower’s even more beautiful.
Kaulika: Yes, the manure, it has to be there. It is all there. If you just look at your body, tantra is all about so much. Many people miss the point. They feel that it is all about sex and touching your body, it’s not that. If you simply just watch yourself and your body, what is your body? You feel beautiful with your body. You feel good with your body. You feel bad with your body. Your body expresses your anger, fits through your body you feel all the five senses. Beautiful smell. You also smell the shit. You look at the most beautiful thing, you also look at the most darkest things.
Everything is available to you. You are the same body who’s meditating and in the stomach of the meditator, it is full of shit. And there’s nothing ugly about shit, because it is a part of you. It’s simply the food, which has been digested and that is the shit. It is… it’s simply the idea of the mind that has been created, “Ah, it is shit.” But what is it? It’s a part of you. It’s a part of the body. If you just simply dissect it like a scientist, the food that you love so much, you have loved to eat, just with your fluids of your body and your juices, it has been digested in your system. So your body can absorb it. It can nourish your body and then what is not needed, it comes out. That is the whole transformation of tantra.
You go through everything, all the ups and downs and hell and heaven and everything, but what remains in the end is just the flower, is just the essence. But the whole life is needed to digest that whole process. But yes, it can happen just in a flash, that you see the whole life just in a flash. Oh, everything is happening in a day or in a moment. This is what will happen all throughout. So then let’s relax, let’s just enjoy. Let’s enjoy. It’s a part of your day. You don’t judge yourself, because you go to shit every day. You say, “Oh, what a great release. I have to go kaka”, we always speak like that in the morning. You have to have a good sleep and then in the morning, a good shit. Then everything is fine, the whole day is fine.
That is how we do in meditation. It’s just like sleeping, how it takes over. In meditation, you go to your deep relaxation and then whatever needs to transform, you want to be angry or you want to like say a few words or you have to maybe beat up some cushions, it’s fine. It’s fine. If you don’t go through that process, you will also not touch the amazing moments of your love making, your peaks, so that you can feel the deep contrasts and the beauties of these contrasts.
Tantra is all and everything. It is very beautiful and love is all and everything. Then you see that shit is also love. It’s a part of your love. There’s one of the tantric practices that you have to eat your shit. I did and you will be maybe surprised that I really loved to do it, because I could see what I was taking in. It was – you see many times the babies, they just do the kaka and they put it in their mouth, because they are not in their mind. It has nothing to do with your mind or your anything. It is not harmful. It’s very harmless. And insults are very innocent. You cannot judge anything there.
And that is also probably what he [Hariprem] shares so much: his being or his living in the commune, his experiences. I feel so deeply touched and so, so connected with Osho, you know. When he was doing all these evening meetings and letters, he reads them and we share them, that is one of our very beautiful meditations. He reads Osho and every time, every day, it’s so amazing. Whatever, maybe on that day we have experienced something and immediately some kind of stuff comes from Osho that day, which is so much in sync and we start to laugh and say, “Ah! This is what was happening, look!” And it was so much fun.
Sometimes I would go so upset and then suddenly I don’t see him anymore. I just see Osho, “Ah, okay.” That was the game. Okay, okay, okay. This is simply just a test from him. It’s a test kiss, okay. Then I see something else. But it’s so much fun that when you are so much in love only then it is possible, otherwise, always there are comparisons or there are kind of evil gains and things like that. That surrender is very, very amazing. I feel what surrender he felt far away from Amsterdam, from Holland and he ran all the way to India, I feel the same. Even when his body is gone, still I feel the same.
So many times I tell him, “I feel like going to Pune,” as if I go to Pune I will see that he’s [Osho] still sitting there. It feels so alive. It feels so alive. Maybe that is also one of the amazing gifts of tantra, that it is so alive. He was so alive and he has really, really helped so many people to stay so alive and be so fully, fully alive. When I feel him then I feel so blessed to live with Hariprem because he’s a man who has lived so deeply. He has such an expanded life, it’s like he’s for me a never ending mystery. I don’t want to unravel, because I know I cannot and that mystery is such a love affair. You don’t know why it happens. There is no why. You can just go more and more and more…
What is your message to the world?
Hariprem: I’m not especially a messenger, but the only thing that always comes back to me, I want a family and we have forgotten that and the whole world is one family, brothers and sisters, and it is very necessary that we remember that. On all levels, the politicians have to remember that, the religions have to remember that, the common people have to remember that. Then this planet is the most amazing gift possible, but if you don’t remember, we destroy this gift and it is already almost destroyed.
We are a family of brothers and sisters in love. I’m a little bit hesitant, because I don’t feel myself like I want to – who am I to give a message to the world? I am really nobody, but still, this – there is very few people who speak like this. So these messages they are important. If it can reach a few people, it is also quite nice.
Kaulika: For me, it is the same. It is the same. I feel that that is why we are here together on this planet. We are here for some purpose and then, yes, of course, universe knows that purpose. That is why it put us together in a very mysterious way and that is why it keeps moving us from one place to the other. We don’t know what will happen next. But one thing we know, wherever we go, we will meet with our family. That is all. And that is the joy for us, to meet with our family, to meet with our brothers and sisters, to share our love with them, to receive the love, and feel blessed.
Every time we feel that also that when you are also in the conscious space of sharing your love, it creates a huge amount of energy in this planet. That love that we are made up of, we are made up of this earth and then, yeah, then it is also the earth also needs it back. So yes, these vibrations, it also heals our mother planet, it also heals all the brothers and sisters somewhere else. Where? We don’t know. Also for the trees and the plants and the animals. Whatever we will create with our energy, it will stay there.
So I feel always just to share with everyone whoever I meet, just to meditate, just meditate, just meditate and see what happens. That is the only way I feel that—the only, that is the only thing that is left on this planet to survive a little bit more, because without meditation it’s not possible to see that what we are creating.
Again, thank you so much for this beautiful interview, Hariprem and Kaulika!
Read the first part of the interview right here.
If you like to attend their workshops around the world, you can find their schedule here.